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Mixing:  something under $300 that will make everything sound better


24-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
24-Jan-02 (Albert)
24-Jan-02 (silverglitter)
24-Jan-02 (CoolColJ)
24-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
24-Jan-02 (nubilee)
24-Jan-02 (Albert)
24-Jan-02 (dhex)
24-Jan-02 (BlindLizard)
24-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
24-Jan-02 (phraggle)
24-Jan-02 (BlindLizard)
24-Jan-02 (fac)
25-Jan-02 (Spectralab)
25-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
25-Jan-02 (Gothicindustrial)
25-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
25-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
25-Jan-02 (Gothicindustrial)
25-Jan-02 (Steve B)
25-Jan-02 (machinapathy)
25-Jan-02 (rjx)
25-Jan-02 (blipbleepblip)
25-Jan-02 (Tenet)
25-Jan-02 (alive)
25-Jan-02 (jbfunk)
25-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
25-Jan-02 (chromapolaris)
25-Jan-02 (rjx)
25-Jan-02 (CoolColJ)
25-Jan-02 (Rowboffin)
25-Jan-02 (qantor)
26-Jan-02 (CoolColJ)
27-Jan-02 (fac)
27-Jan-02 (Spectralab)
27-Jan-02 (CoolColJ)
27-Jan-02 (Spectralab)
27-Jan-02 (Spectralab)
28-Jan-02 (Positronica)
28-Jan-02 (Karplus)
28-Jan-02 (rjx)
28-Jan-02 (Tenet)
29-Jan-02 (Karplus)
29-Jan-02 (blipbleepblip)
29-Jan-02 (rjx)
29-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
29-Jan-02 (daryl)
29-Jan-02 (Karplus)
30-Jan-02 (blipbleepblip)
30-Jan-02 (Illacov)
30-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
30-Jan-02 (Illacov)
30-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
31-Jan-02 (llewxamcire)
03-Feb-02 (Illacov)
03-Feb-02 (Spectralab)
04-Feb-02 (nubilee)
04-Feb-02 (Illacov)
04-Feb-02 (derek)
04-Feb-02 (Illacov)


Original Message
llewxamcire.... something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  03:17PM )

- i am sure that is a bit of a ridiculous statement to many here. but that is what i am after. i don't know what it is. i am hoping you'll tell me. i am on a very tight budget. i would like something that would add punch and clarity and warmth. something i could run everything through. so preferably stereo. i know this is a tall order for a low cost but there must be something. a couple vc3qs, something by art, something. thanks for your help.

llewxamcire

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Albert.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything (24-Jan-02  03:54PM )

- Maybe what you are looking for is something like a BBE sonic maximizer 362 or 482, or the Aphex model 204 aural exciter. Those would be in your price range I believe.

http://www.bbesound.com/static/index. htm

http://www.aphex.com/

Link: http://www.misterpotts.com

Albert

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silverglitter.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  04:01PM )

- HWta do you feel is better, the BBE or the Aphex.... I have an Aphex 105 Gate and like it a lot, I have never used BBE stuff. I am willing to spend about $400 on one, so let me know. Thanks. Dan

silverglitter

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CoolColJ.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  04:13PM )

- Something with valves should do the trick - you'll get the glow of the top for that nice sheen. extra thickness down low, and the 2nd harmonic distrtion moves everything forward from the speakers adding a sort of clarity, since you cna now hear a more defined type of sound.

Even a solid state box that adds 2nd harmonic distortion could work like a Joe Meek box

CoolColJ

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  05:11PM )

- i have an older aphex aural exciter and it's just too noisy to use. maybe this is corrected on the newer models? i had a presonus bluetube but the left channel died and it was a little noisy too. it was pretty subtle. but it sounded good. this is good help thanks all. coolcolj i don't speak your crazy moon language would you mind explaining how it is that valves do that and what 2nd harmonic distortion is? i am a big tube fan (guitar player). but i don't know what is going on there.

llewxamcire

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nubilee.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  05:19PM )

- Aphex Aural Exciter C3, or a SPL Vitalizer jack.

Both weigh in right at $300 or a little less.

nubilee

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Albert.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything (24-Jan-02  05:32PM )

- The specs on the Aphes 204 look really good, but I haven't heard one yet. I would assume they are much quieter now.

Link: http://www.misterpotts.com

Albert

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dhex.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  07:38PM )

- $300 bucks would get you a very large grab-bag of drugs, which make everything sound better.

personally, having heard the aphex exciter series, i hate the way they sound. i haven't heard the higher end models though, so (hopefully) they increase in quality as they increase in price?

FMR RNC? it's stereo...

dhex

Link: http://www.sluntrec.com

dhex

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BlindLizard.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  07:50PM )

- While everyone seems to be steering you towards exciters, I would highly recommend a compressor instead.

You wanted punch and clarity? That's basically what compressors do. Wondering why you can't get your sound to be anything like any of the dance tracks you've heard? It's because you're not compressing virtually everything.

If you're wanting to produce dance music, you ought to compress (at the very least) your kick drums, your bass and probably your hats and leads.

Of course, the key is running everything through a compressor before you record it to your hard disk, and then again through the compressor (albeit lightly) for your final mix.

I recommend the alesis 3630 which can be purchased for $100 at musician's friend.

I'm actually shocked that everyone jumped all over exciters and maximizers instead of compressors. really shocked, actually.

BlindLizard

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  08:07PM )

- i've got a behringer composer pro that i'm not too impressed with. i've also got compression and exciters in my sp808 but it's not doing what i'm looking for. my aphex unit and the exciters in the sp add too much high end hiss.

i really haven't heard to much dance music but i don't think i'm into the total compression thing. it kind of destroys subtleties (sp?) and dynamic range.

i do think compression might be part of it but not all. the joemeek stuff is interesting to me. so is the vitalizer but i can't locate a place on the net that sells it in the states so far.

so when is the best time to apply this sort of thing anyway? at mixdown or the initial tracking? or both? or... seems like it might be cool to have a joemeek unit for tracking and a vitalizer at mix down. i don't know if i could stretch that far though.

thanks again all. i'm searching out your suggestions and learning.

llewxamcire

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phraggle.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  09:13PM )

- Maybe have a look at the HHB Phatboy (sp?) tube compressor. It looks like it might fit the bill... It has presets, but you can set it yourself too of course.

I have the HHB Radius 30 tube compressor, and I like the way it sounds. I often use it over a stereo mix to juice it up, or to make drum tracks pump and breathe a bit with that nice tube sound.

Link: http://www.hhb.co.uk

phraggle


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BlindLizard.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  10:02PM )

- Proper use of compressors will not destroy your dynamics because if you compress a track you could simply lower the level of that one track in the mix.

When you hear people talking about 'squashing dynamics' what they mean is that you're eliminating fast transients. example: a snare drums initial hit may only pop the red for a split second, but that milisecond is like 6db higher than the rest of the drum hit. This is undesirable. If you were to record this way, in order to keep from clipping, the volume of your whole track would have to be much lower. This also can tend to muddy up your track quite a bit.

You're probably thinking of dynamics in an orchestral sense, where parts are loud and parts are soft. These are not the dynamics they're talking about when they say that compressors squash dynamics.

I've never used a vitalizer before (although I've thought about getting some sort of mastering enhancer... specifically I hear the BBE sonic maximizer is good) but I'd imagine you'd use it after you compress on mixdown. (BTW when you compress on mixdown you want to go light... because this is where you can end up removing the dynamics of your piece as a whole.

BlindLizard

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fac.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (24-Jan-02  10:40PM )

- Hey, with $300 you can buy an Alesis 3630 AND a FMR RNC compressors. One for drums and bass, the other for everything else :)

fac


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Spectralab.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  12:25AM )

- don't waste your money on the 3630... worst sounding POS compressor ever put on the market, IMO...

be wary of the BBE gear as well, it ain't all it's cracked up to be (again, IMO).

In your price range, I suggest sticking with the RNC or a Joe Meek C2 (if you can find one used, they're discontinued) for compressors, or a Vitalizer if you choose to go the exciter route.

Good luck...

Spectralab

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  01:51AM )

- thanks a bunch again everyone. blindlizard - i always thought compression restricted dynamic range. and 'squashing dynamics' sounds like limiting. i don't think i understand what you're saying exactly. i always thought dynamics refered to actual db's. it certainly does in the classical sense.

this just in: the evil empire has the joe meek vc3q for $99. any opinions on that particular item. i thought they were 199 but nay.

llewxamcire

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Gothicindustrial.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  02:19AM )

- What's the evil empire?

Gothicindustrial

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  02:38AM )

- where can i find a vitalizer jack in the states?

llewxamcire

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  03:10AM )

- the evil empire goes by the code name, "guitar center." i bit ago they sucked up "musicians friend" i think that's when they became an empire. before that they were just evil. but bill is ok. if you talk to bill at the evil empire, he's not so bad.

llewxamcire

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Gothicindustrial.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  03:13AM )

- OOOOOOh, THAT evil empire. I should have known. :-)

Gothicindustrial

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Steve B.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  03:48AM )

- How about a weekend break away from the studio?

That'll clean your ears out & perhaps give you perspective ...

Steve B

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machinapathy.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  03:49AM )

- Um, this may be a bit late but I would still suggest (as someone has before) a HHB phatboy stereo preset compressor. I use a lot of their tube gear and it is realy incredible.

However, you might want to buy a seperate gate because it doesn't have one (I don't think) and hhb stuff can get kinda noisy.

machinapathy

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rjx.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything (25-Jan-02  03:52AM )

- Get an RNC.

Hey what is it with the 3060 in all the big studios? Why do they have one or two if there so crappy? I have never used one so im just wondering.

rjx

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blipbleepblip.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  05:39AM )

- because they're cheap and if they need something quick and dirty that doesn't require a lot of finesse they'll do the trick.

blipbleepblip

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Tenet.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  08:52AM )

- Zoom's got that RFX-2000 processor - midi-enabled, has tons of effects, digital ins and outs, does lo-fi, reverb, you-name-it, and from what I hear, sounds very nice for the money - it's only $199! It's ugly, but it's supposedly not bad....

Link: http://www.WickedPenguin.com

Tenet

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alive.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  12:43PM )

- yes,3630 is too noisy imo,i used one.bbe is good for widen ur sonic/stereo images,i'm using a 862.rnc is good compressor tho it's too clear imo,i'll use 160a if u want that punch in the rhythm parts.and i also want a vitaliser.where can i find a lowest price in the states?and some said there are 3 different versions:tube,classic and jack,and the the jack one lacks lots of important functions...anyone?

alive

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jbfunk.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  01:04PM )

- Don't spend $300 right away, try 1 or 2 dbx 163 compressors. They only cost about $30 to $40 used on Ebay. I wouldn'tmake money an issue right away. Unless you are ready to spend into the $1000 plus range on effects anyway, you may not find all that much for $300. Experiment with some cheaper lesser known alternatives. Maybe 300 could go towards something else too instead of effects. Reasses you equipment see if you really aren't looking for something else. Just

jbfunk

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  01:18PM )

- money has to be an issue right away. i've set a goal i need to meet and i do think i need something other than what i have already to get the sound i want. and i've listed three units i've experimented with. a behringer compressor, older aphex, and presonus blue tube. i thin kif the evil empire still has them i'll pick up a vc3q or two. thanks all for your help. i do appreciate very much.

llewxamcire

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chromapolaris.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  01:25PM )

- I know this might seem obvious, but rather than X effect or such, I'd have to say good music lessons. Even if you are a good musician, learning to play *that* much better will have great effects on your sound. If you can't play very well, I can guarantee that money will make everything you do sound better.

Patrick

chromapolaris

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rjx.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything (25-Jan-02  02:53PM )

- blipbleepblip-

Whats the sound difference between a 3060 and a 8-12 bit sampler? The sampler makes the sound dirty and grundgy...but how is the sound of the 3060 compared to the sampler? And thinking that the 3060 is good on drums if it dirtys up sounds?

thx

rjx

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CoolColJ.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  05:32PM )

- 2nd harmonic distortion is what valves primarily add, though there are other even harmonics added further up. Basicly 2nd harmonic distortion is a harmonic that is added to the signal, that is one octave up from the original, usaully around -30 to -25db. If you know anything about synths, you should know that when you add an oscillator an octave up, you get a brassy and thicker sound. Same thing here only less so. And becuase its one octave up, you get more top end and a glow. Your actually extending the frequency range. This also makes the mix easier to hear, low level things get more noticeable etc.

The Joe Meek boxes are the only cheap things that do add 2nd harmonic distortion in the required amount. And since its Solid State its a lot quieter than cheap Valve devices.

CoolColJ

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Rowboffin.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  06:43PM )

- TLA tube stuff can be quite cheap. Well, here in the UK at least....

Rowboffin

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qantor.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (25-Jan-02  08:15PM )

- Alesis 3630 : "- don't waste your money on the 3630... worst sounding POS compressor ever put on the market..." "- yes,3630 is too noisy..."

I have one and I find the unit rather neutral...I don't know what you two are talking about. ;)

I'm also using BBE Sonic Maximizer(plugin version). Good stuff, but need to be used with moderation to have a good result. It's like steroids to your sound.

I think both a compressor and a kind of sonic enhancer are usefull and both have their own advantages and disadvantages. As for what brand to use or not to use, go in a store, ask a demo (that's what they're paid for) and trust your own ears, they will always be your best judge... ;)

qantor

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CoolColJ.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (26-Jan-02  02:37AM )

- All a BBE Sonic Maximiser, is a 3 band phase shift and a dynamic equaliser.

If you turn the bass knob up, the bass freq phase is pushed forward, and the mid range back a bit. The Process knob determins the amount of dynamic top end EQ boost and a top end phase shift.

Needless to say, to does some serious changes to your music. and IMO only works well on drums. Listen to he early FSOL albums - its used all over it - and it sounds harsh IMO. Because drums are transient in nature, the dynamic EQ aspect works well here, and the "hard" phased shifted sound doesn't "honk" the tone fo the drums too much.

CoolColJ

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fac.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (27-Jan-02  01:26AM )

- An Alesis 3630 has its uses - especially for dirty drums and bass. That's why I suggested one of those AND also a RNC for clean compression.

fac


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Spectralab.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (27-Jan-02  10:15AM )

- "An Alesis 3630 has its uses" - yes, and those uses consist of speaker protection and... well, not much else, IMO...

Spectralab

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CoolColJ.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (27-Jan-02  03:31PM )

- Well I used the 3630 on every sound and sample on all my early material - its not that bad :)

CoolColJ

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Spectralab.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (27-Jan-02  03:50PM )

- well, I will admit that given a choice of a 3630 or the Behringer "composer" series, THEN I would take a 3630... but I'm still not a fan of the 3630, and with the RNC around now, I see no reason for people to spend money on a 3630. IMO. I just don't like the thing, it sounds "boxy" to me... a guy on AH once described the sound of cheap dbx compressors as "fish being slapped against wood"... IMO, the same description is pretty accurate for the 3630 - just substitute a slightly thicker pirce of wood.

Spectralab

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Spectralab.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (27-Jan-02  03:51PM )

- PIECE of wood

Spectralab

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Positronica.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (28-Jan-02  01:42AM )

- I used to use a BBE sonic maximizer all the time for my complete mix, but over time I've slowly been getting sick of it. When I first got it, it sounded great, but as the months went by I kept slowly turning the processing level down lower and lower until this past weekend I removed it from my setup altogether. Something about it just makes stuff sound too cold, and too harsh.

On a related note, I managed to pick up a Focusrite Mixmaster with the digital out card at Guitar Center for only $450 this weekend. It was a floor model, but it was racked up back in the glassed in, high-end studio section, so it really hasn't been used or abused at all.

Positronica

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Karplus.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (28-Jan-02  01:49AM )

- Hearing Aids

Sennheiser Headphones

Am I getting close?

MUSIC LESSONS

Karplus

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rjx.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything (28-Jan-02  06:57PM )

- Hey guys I have a few questions for anyone that can help..

What exactly does a maximizer / exciter do and are they worth it? From what I have been reading in my catalogs is that they are like compressors and eq's? Please correct me if im wrong. And I was also wondering what an expander is used for? And are Finalizers just many different peices of gear in one? Seems like its everything in one box(eq,compressor,etc)? If so, wouldnt it be wiser to just buy each peice of gear sepertly so that you can have a higher quality? Cus I assume since its everything in one box that the quality would be low to keep the price low?

THX

rjx

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Tenet.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything (28-Jan-02  07:45PM )

- In a word, maximizers/exciters give "Definition" to your mixes and sound.

Link: http://www.WickedPenguin.com

Tenet

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Karplus.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (29-Jan-02  01:28AM )

- I still say some music lessons couldn't hurt.

Karplus

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blipbleepblip.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (29-Jan-02  03:03AM )

- Um, to answer yr question RJX, it's pretty tough to compare an Alesis compressor to a low quality sampler. While the Alesis compressor doesn't have 100% joe pro sound quality, it's definitely not in the "sonic destruction" category, which is what you seem to be looking for when you say you're considering the sound of a 8 or 12 bit sampler. For that kind of thing, besides knocking down your sample rate, look around for VST plugs. Also there's some really ill stuff in "SonicWorx Artist."

Personally I love these third-party effects for the Ensoniq ASR10 called "waveboy" FX... there's a floppy disk called 'sonic demolition' that has some brilliant lo-fi effects. Not just the usual bit-cruncher, it models CB radios and that kind of thing, but with a lot of editable eq curves, cutoff points, noise gates, "station drift"(!), etc. Very cool. It's the only reason I still own an ASR10.

You may want to even play around with finding old walkie talkies or cb radios and building a line in to one and a line out of the other for this kind of thing.

blipbleepblip

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rjx.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything (29-Jan-02  11:08AM )

- Blipbeepblip

Thanks for the ideas ! If I had an asr10 I would get that program soooo fast. I have a freind who has one and doesnt know about it though. Im sure he will be really happy cus he also wants that sound.

rjx

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (29-Jan-02  07:38PM )

- lessons don't really apply to my situation mr. karplus. i have had quite a bit of music training but i think it's beside the point. i'm trying to make recordings sound better. the recording aspect itself. not the talent aspect of writing or playing or.... sorry my subject title may have been a bit vague. all that said, drum lessons would be neat. though i don't have a drumset.

llewxamcire

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daryl.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (29-Jan-02  10:31PM )

- I thought I saw somehting cheap at zzounds that was Joemeek (I think a compressor). I'm not interested in one so I didn't pay attention.

daryl

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Karplus.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (29-Jan-02  11:16PM )

- I was just trying to get some thinking going on. There is nothing out there that will make a great mix sound great"er" for only $300. If your mixes sound flat work on your mixing. There is no quick cheap fix that works. A processor may make a crappy track sound passable, or a decent track sound good, but a great track is great with or without a $300 or $3000 box.

If you are missing some of the basic recording tools like a compressor or an effects processor you are a rare bird in todays world. Most people have decent effects built into their recorders. And trust me the fact that the Beatles only used some spring and tape reverbs, compressors and a reel to reel four track on an album didn't keep it from having great mixes and ground breaking sound.

Your best bet is to buy some books on mixing if you feel that your musicianship is beyond reproach yet your mixes are flat.

Karplus

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blipbleepblip.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (30-Jan-02  05:16AM )

- ...And honestly, pay attention to the sound quality of your sound sources. My own stuff is all over the place from very very lo-fi to very very hi-fi. But it's important to be able to use the very hi-fi stuff in order to establish that I'm presenting an INTENTIONAL sound universe that includes lower fidelity stuff, y'know'i'msay'n?

Sometimes this means upgrading your sound modules(s), sometimes it means getting a nice mic and recording real hi-hat parts onto your tracks (a great thing to do), sometimes it means getting a better sound card, or something.

Today I just spent a little bit of cash to go into a friend's nice recording studio and play drums for an hour. Now I can take the recordings home and I have my own extremely hi-fi drum loops that aren't stolen from anywhere. Probably enough to last me months and months. And they'll add very nice presence to my tracks, as the drumkit was mic'd by a pro.

There are many ways to get your tracks to sound great, but few of them are quick fixes for a small amount of money. Most involve practice and hard work.

blipbleepblip

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Illacov.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (30-Jan-02  09:10AM )

- if you want my honest opinion go to musiciansfriend.com and look into an item called an ULTRADYNE. It has a multiband compressor, limiter, gate, denoiser, exciter, sub harmonic generator and a tube emulator with selectable tube types for 250 dollars USA. You want to talk about a quick fix this would be it. It also has an ultramizer function which allows you to set your maximum output level and it uniformly makes your mix reach full clarity at that level of decibels. An intelligent limiter you might say.

Its software editable and on top of that it has presets that come right out of the box and as well it has this really HUGE screen so that you can see it in the dark if you have to:) And as well so that you dont have to squint to read its information ala Akai S2000 family of samplers.

for 250 bucks you cant beat it and if you dont like it cant you return it anyways? But point blank. I like it enough that Im buying it. Ive heard its effects and after my experiences with multiband compression, its a wonder why people even mess with broadband compression.

A cheaper alternative btw is the ULTRAMIZER, it does multiband compression, limiting, exciter and sub harmonic generation, plus has the Ultramizer function. All for 90 dollars, smackerss, bucks, ducats, etc. Im buying an ultramizer just as a processing unit for my samplers stereo outs and then Im buying the Ultradyne for the mastering processor. I already own 2 mastering compressors, Alesis 3630, everybodys darling, dbx 266xl, and a bbe sonic maximizer from the 80s which has a vintage sound to it. I have some 40 dollar compressor that I run my sampler into. I patch the 40 dollar compressors outputs into a stereo channel on my mixer. Behringer 1604 btw. Its been doing the trick but I think its time I retired the poor thing. :)

Ahh well Im rambling let the hatin begin

Peace Illacov

Link: http://madonna.acidplanet.com/Lounge/ArtistDetail. ...

Illacov

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (30-Jan-02  12:36PM )

- i'm buying a joe meek something. i've decided. either a c2 or a vc6q. i don't want to use the stock pre's in my behringer 1604a. (would you?) and my compressor sucks for the most part (more behringer). i don't ever want anything else that says behringer on it. my musicianship is not above reproach. i just think it doesn't apply to this situation. couldn't a great engineer or mixer be a relatively not so great musician? great engineers are great because they know how to use the right tools. i'm just starting to try to get the right tools, so i can learn how to use them. i mean why not have better gear to learn on? thanks all for your comments.

llewxamcire

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Illacov.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (30-Jan-02  08:26PM )

- On sonicstate, theres a review of the dbx Quantum mastering processor and the guy gives the quantum a great review, BUT he says that the Ultradyne is a better value and does the same thing, but only costs 250 dollars. Whats wrong with Behringer? Why would you think that the pres on your mixer would be phenomenal in the first place? We're not talking Otari or a Neve preamp, its a 2 dollar pre amp literally. You havent said anything about if the mixer is noisy or it ruins your mixes though have you? You have to mix and match manufacturers to find the sound that you want.

Behringer has some decent stuff, namely the Ultradyne and Ultramizer, which are very affordable entries in the multiband compression field.

Point blank if you need to buy a compressor, get a Multiband compressor. Cuz if the Joe meek you get is broadband, then you will have bass pumping in your mix, if you put any kind of bassy elements in your music. Namely, whenever you lay a kick drum into the mix your volume on the hi hats will drop because the bass is triggering the compressor. Multiband compression doesnt have this drawback.

Do what you want. But you will come over to the other side, whether or not its in the name of Behringer is pointless. You want a versatile piece of equipment. Wait and see.

I had to learn the hardway myself about broadband and so will you. Just go to a search engine and look up Multiband compression and try to find an audio example of what it can do to a mix.

Go on check it out.

Peace Illacov

Illacov

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (30-Jan-02  09:01PM )

- thanks Illacov. i'll read the review before i make my purchase. i didn't think the pres in my mixer would be great when i bought it. i just needed something to "get me by" as they say. and i guess i'm not unhappy with the mixer (though the channels bleed, do they call that crosstalk?), i mean it was $170. i just don't want to spend money on things that will get me by anymore. the compressor really isn't all that great imo. it's a composer pro. though it was only $100 it just doesn't do a very good job. should have saved my money. i think i understand your point with the whole behringer thing. and i certainly don't enjoy learning the hard way. so i'll check it out.

but... i did just get a line on a joemeek vc1 for $350. that seems like a good idea. i would be using it for tracking (mono anyway) so the multiband thing wouldn't enter the picture yet. i'll be getting a studio projects c1 that i would use with it. which i'm excited about.

llewxamcire

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llewxamcire.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (31-Jan-02  02:25AM )

- Illacov - the ultradyne is $190 at zzounds.com. it looks interesting. though complicated.

llewxamcire

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Illacov.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (03-Feb-02  07:02PM )

- Im buying one on Tuesday.

Point blank the thing listens to your music and sets the compression across six bands of frequency, to give you the best mix. ITs a mastering processor, so it has a look ahead feature which translates into a delay in your music. HOWEVER, you can still facilitate your mixdowns from the control room jack thru your head phones or wherever thats going because the control room jack is pre mastering since you put mastering compression on the main outs of the 1604a which doesnt have main out inserts. So your signal path would be

1604a => Ultradyne => 2 track recording.

You would hear your mix as normal from the control room outs so that you could do your mutes or break downs whatever, but then the ultradyne would be working its magic on your mix keeping it even the whole time and keeping it uniform unlike broadband.

For the time being Im gonna use my 3630, for limiting before the Ultradyne.

As for the Behringer, make sure you got the damn thing set right. If you have the output set too high it will be noisy. Dont worry about volume, thats what mastering is for. If you have the compressor at

like +10 db, it shouldnt be that loud. It should be pretty lively, actually just dont crank your amp too loud.

Make sure your mixer is not jacked up. I would not be using any eq before a compressor, actually since the eq boosts frequencies that trigger the compressor in ways that flat eqing wont.

Its better to run eq after compression in my opinion. Also, what are you running into your mixer? Sampler? Synth?

If you use samples please make sure your samples have been normalized to at the highest 0 db or -1 or -2 db. You will see a huge difference.

This can be done in cool edit. Which is a free demo anyways.

For synths. Make sure you dont overload the inputs on the mixer. Compression will make the volumes more uniform but if your signal is distorting unneccesarily it will not sound all that great, the Behringers arent forgiving when it comes to distortion, unless thats something you are looking for :) All in all, get yourself a cd that was produced by a signed artist, like Britney spears or Ghostface killah and a/b their sound with your own. The best way to do this is to have your volume set at whatever loudness you want on your receiver and then play the cd and see how loud it is. Then keeping your volume the same play one of your tracks. IF your music is too loud you have to turn it down on the mixer channels. If your music is too quiet then it needs some boosting in the chain. Without introducing unnessary noise.

Email me if you want to get more in depth about this. I got 8 years under my belt so I believe I can help you out.

Peace Illacov

Illacov

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Spectralab.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (03-Feb-02  09:18PM )

- no offense, but I can't believe that someone with 8 years experience is talking about about putting a 3630 and an Ultradyne on an entire mix... I'd hesitate to even recommend using them for individual tracks myself... call me a gear snob if that's how it seems, but my roughly 4 years of serious experience with both pro- and project-level gear has taught me never to use a 3630 or Behringer dynamics gear for any serious projects...

Once again, just an opinion, not looking to start a flame war.

Spectralab

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nubilee.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (04-Feb-02  05:31PM )

- Yeah.. Though I've listened to the new Behringer powered monitors, and honestly they're pretty good.

I abhore the 3630's, augh..

nubilee

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Illacov.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (04-Feb-02  06:01PM )

- I dont know whats so wrong with the 3630. I just use it as a limiter. If you expect joemeek, then why are you bitchin go buy one.

I bought a 3630 because one can never really buy a good compressor nowadays that is even going to touch pro studio budgeting so i say just keep the mix even. I also run my sampler direct into a compressor before the mixer so all the 3630 does is give a slight gain boost while keeping the levels even.

But so what have you listened to my mixes and heard a 3630?

HMMM

Anyways check out an Ultradyne dont like it dont buy it

180 dollars you wont flinch cuz i sure as hell didnt

Peace Illacov

Illacov

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derek.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (04-Feb-02  07:29PM )

- id go for a RNC, definetly. learn-mixing-take-music-lessons-use-this-cool-plug aside, its never wrong to have a good compressor around, and in its price range, you cant beat the RNC.

derek

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Illacov.... Re:something under $300 that will make everything sound better (04-Feb-02  09:46PM )

- RNCs are nice too. But if you want to get a good add on to your setup look into mastering because its that much more easier for you to burn your mix and not worry about volume levels.

IMO I have a compressor already that IM satisfied with, that has never made my mixes NOISY and when used properly has improved rather than destroyed my sound quality.

Im not saying that this thing (3630) is a cureall, but jeez stop nitpicking.

My main point was to look into the Ultradyne. Ive heard stuff thats come out of professional studios and been in them and Ive always been complimented for my "ears," which btw are naturally trained, so after listening to the Ultradyne and what a properly educated person can do with one I decided to purchase one.

Very soon Ill have some tracks that will A/B the difference and then you can decide.

Alright?

Alright.

Peace Illacov

Illacov

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