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General:  Have I sold out??? I need to know!!!


18-Aug-02 (Karplus)
18-Aug-02 (pnedito)
18-Aug-02 (myamoto)
18-Aug-02 (soulboy)
18-Aug-02 (ThliGrdd)
18-Aug-02 (pnedito)
18-Aug-02 (myamoto)
18-Aug-02 (ThliGrdd)
18-Aug-02 (nubilee)
18-Aug-02 (myamoto)
18-Aug-02 (digiphallus)
19-Aug-02 (silmu)
19-Aug-02 (myamoto)
19-Aug-02 (myamoto)
19-Aug-02 (Karplus)
19-Aug-02 (Karplus)
19-Aug-02 (pnedito)
19-Aug-02 (supersayayin)
19-Aug-02 (IX.lab)
19-Aug-02 (Karplus)
19-Aug-02 (kybernetik)
19-Aug-02 (brokentoys)
19-Aug-02 (Karplus)
19-Aug-02 (fac)
19-Aug-02 (supersayayin)
19-Aug-02 (Synth72)
19-Aug-02 (php)
20-Aug-02 (soulboy)
20-Aug-02 (silmu)
20-Aug-02 (ivan)
20-Aug-02 (FootFall)
20-Aug-02 (syd)
20-Aug-02 (Karplus)
20-Aug-02 (syd)
21-Aug-02 (Karplus)
21-Aug-02 (ivan)
21-Aug-02 (Karplus)
22-Aug-02 (David M)
22-Aug-02 (silverglitter)
23-Aug-02 (nubilee)


Original Message
Karplus.... Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  03:07PM )

- I just moved from the Southwest to the east coast.

(And, I don't mean Exeter to Ipswich, for your brits. I mean from Oklahoma Ciy, Oklahoma to Philadelphia,Pennsylvania.)

In preparation for the move I sold off my studio. This included a Motif 8, Nord Modular Keys, Wavestation A/D, DW-8000, DM Pro, FS1R, SY77, TG77, K5000s, E-Synth Keys etc... Mackie 3204, two of each Electrix effects (minus repeater), some Lexicon and TC effects. And stuff I can't remember.

I moved here with nothing and have been working for two months and waiting to start rebuilding in the fall.

HOWEVER THE BUG BIT ME AND I BOUGHT REASON AND THE OXYGEN 8.

I was amazed that Reason had a decent analog modelling synth, cool samplers, and decent drum machine. I have never used many computer based synths and I think I may have to start giving them more than a wink and a nod.

HAVE I SOLD OUT???

HAS VIRTUAL GEAR COME OF AGE???

DO WE NEED TO EMPTY OUR RACKS AND BEEF UP OUR CPUs???

Karplus

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pnedito.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  03:34PM )

- ---HAVE I SOLD OUT???

Perhaps, but wait till that sucker shuts down on you for some unknown reason...

First time it locks up on you big time you will probably sell out again to hardware... I lay odds 6:1 anyone that karplus is back to hardware in less tahn a year and a half... any takers?

pnedito

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myamoto.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  04:23PM )

- I love hardware irationally and I pray for the day that I have a Karplus style rebirth. Sigh. I just don't seem to get it.

myamoto

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soulboy.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  05:27PM )

- Those who judge others of selling out while 'keeping it real' themselves generally have day jobs - leaving them in the safety zone of not having to pay the rent from their music.

soulboy

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ThliGrdd.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  05:29PM )

- Wha? Oklahoma city isn't southwest, that's midwest, weirdo.

ThliGrdd

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pnedito.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  05:34PM )

- ---Oklahoma city isn't southwest, that's midwest, weirdo.

When did the Midwest get so big?

OKC is southwest IMO.

KY is Midwest/High-South and we are nothing like the bozos from the Southwest... including those geographically challenged bozos in OKC :)

pnedito

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myamoto.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  05:42PM )

- hey karplus well done for knowing the geography of Britain! I hope that doesn't sound patronising, but the amount of American's I've met who have no idea whatsoever about the geography of anywhere outside the U.S.- I'm not making generalisations, it's just my experience- was really starting to make me feel insulted. You've restored my faith in your compatriots and your nation- although not your president.

myamoto

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ThliGrdd.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  06:40PM )

- When did the southwest get so big? To me, southwest is all west of the rockies, except some parts of Texas. But OKC is A) too far north, and B) not far west enough to be considered southwest. Plus, the southwestern region is very very dry. I dunno, unless there is an OKC in New Mexico or Arizona, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree.

ThliGrdd

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nubilee.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  06:46PM )

- Joke-lahoma..

Texas is the state..

nubilee

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myamoto.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  06:50PM )

- nubilee you're name makes me think of maybeline adverts- 'maybe it's nubilee!'

I guess that should be in the handles thread but I can't be bothered going over there.

myamoto

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digiphallus.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (18-Aug-02  09:02PM )

- They're just tools, you haven't sold out. Selling out involves a compromising of your integrity or your principles in some way.....using different tools because circumstances require so doesn't qualify.

"OKLAHOMA OKLAHOMA OKLAHOMA!!!"

"RUPRICK! Do you want the GENITAL CUFF again!?"

digiphallus

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silmu.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  05:24AM )

- Dear Karplus,

Some of my experiences regarding hardware vs. software

Software - GOOD:

1. Excellent portability (given that you use a laptop). Hell, nowadays you can do a whole record from start to finish on the road if you wish!

2. Soft sequencer/synths such as Reason or Buzz offer a faster way to get a song going.

3. It's easier to experiment with song structures/arrangements. More flexible, all in all.

Software - BAD

- Computers still tend to crash now and then. And then there´s all those mystery troubles, especially if you wish to do also other things apart from music on your computer.

-It´s easy to get disoriented while browsing all the plug-ins / VSTs / millions of presets / whatever. Not to mention an occasional log on the internet in the middle of your music session. You are also in danger of forgetting to LISTEN the music when watching screen (with all those pretty blinking cursors and stuff).

- This is a BIG bad one: sitting at a computer is much less fun than jumping around your studio adjusting your equipment. Also very bad for your posture/health.

- Computer musicians are SOOOOOO BOOORIING to watch live. At least I am.

The benefits / downsides of hardware you know already.

Link: http://www.mp3.com/silmu

silmu

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myamoto.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  06:52AM )

- dirty rotten scoundrels!- I must have seen that fifty times. That had a direct influence on some of my university results, because I'd rather watch it over and over again (especially ruprick) than go to lectures.

myamoto

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myamoto.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  06:54AM )

- silmu, that's why I love hardware. I love buttons and sliders and dials and pedals and- most of all- keys. I know you can get it all for a computer (a MIDI keyboard and a control freak) but it just isn't the same.

myamoto

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Karplus.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  09:49AM )

- Oklahoma is sometimes called the midwest by people however it has much more of a mesquite ridden tundra look in many places, and in others it is just red and resembles a desert. The problem is that it is just south of Kansas and Nebraska which are definitely midwest. However Oklahoma is cradled by texas, and borders New Mexico and Colorado and has way more cowboys than Kansas.

I have heard it refered to a mid south, midwest, and southwest in academic settings. While I was there I learned to feed horses and break ice for them in the winter, it also was the place where I sprained my wrist really bad by getting thrown while I was riding bareback, I learned to two-step and shuffle. It will always be the southwest for me.

Karplus

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Karplus.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  09:56AM )

- As far as Hardware versus Software.

(Why the hell must people blast about nit-picky things when there is enough on topic to blast about)

I haven't had a crash yet, but I have had the program refuse to play a demo song because of processor power.

Anyway I was so pumped that I pulled out some old LPs that I bought and worked out some loops, rhythms and breaks from Philly Joe Jones, and Gene Kruppa and some audio bits from Andrew Mccarthy and Winston Churchill.

I also set up the knobs on my controller to work the two filters and their envelopes.

I hope pnedito is right, I actually brought a scientific laboratory grade 19" rack that is solid metal and six feet tall. I would hate for that to have been in vain. It looks kind of stupid with just my pod pro in it.

Karplus

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pnedito.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  11:31AM )

- --- I actually brought a scientific laboratory grade 19" rack that is solid metal and six feet tall.

You sound like an incurable hardware whore... To thine own self be true Karplus... Damn the wallet :)

pnedito

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supersayayin.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  12:00PM )

- Wasn't Karplus one of those Hardware purits? If so, Yes, you have sold out big time ! shame on you ! LOL!

supersayayin

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IX.lab.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  12:30PM )

- ohhh! not the fs1r!!!

fuck selling out. we live in the belly of the beast and we should eat whatever the fuck drops down here.............

at least thats what i keep telling myself:)

ya liking the weather in philly?

IX.lab

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Karplus.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  12:41PM )

- Thanks supersay' I don't think I really hit bottom until your post.

I better leave for a bit so I don't short out my keyboard.

IX.Lab, it is just as hot in philly as it was in Oklahoma when I left. I am sure the fall will be better though.

Karplus

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kybernetik.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  12:53PM )

- I must be lucky, my computer never crashes.
Or maybe I just know what I'm doing ;)

kybernetik

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brokentoys.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  04:57PM )

- yeah i cant do without hardware. with software i have a tendency to do everything randomely and just make noise music. no software (and yes ive used everything available today) has felt alive and real to me and i have never been able to create anything i like with software. it is strictly for recording and arranging for me. that is all.

brokentoys

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Karplus.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  05:31PM )

- Well I think that there will be more computer generated tracks in my music from now on. It is amazing that I can get a decent sound out of such a small amount of gear.

BEST OF ALL - When I add a new piece of gear it gets all wired up by itself.

BETTER YET - When I add an effect to a single synth all the routing is done automatically.

NO MORE WADING THROUGH 60 to 80 cables behind my mixer to reroute a single effect.

Maybe I have sold out and maybe I have just found a quicker way of doing things. And that is good because the momentum required to turn on 10 peices of gear and get them talking to one another slowed down the creative juices.

Now it is, power of the computer and it is "where will I go today" techno, D&B, Electrolounge, or coverland.

Karplus

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fac.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  06:01PM )

- "And that is good because the momentum required to turn on 10 peices of gear and get them talking to one another slowed down the creative juices. "

When I'm ready to make some music:

1) I turn on my PC.
2) I turn on the gear I'll use.
3) My Akai sampler starts loading the disk inserted at the moment.
4) I load a bank into my ESI-2000 if I need to
5) My SampleTrack loads from its flash memory
6) By the time all my gear is up & running, the PC has just finished loading Windows. I load Sonar. 7) My Midisport 8x8 does all the talking between gear. I just hit record and play away.

Plus I get that lovely feeling from watching every piece of gear come alive as I turn everything on :)

fac


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supersayayin.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  10:33PM )

- Karplus, is it just my perception, or are you just over-reacting? maybe selling your gear is the best shit that happened to you, now you can start to explore from the most basic set-up, and compare the experience with what you had before. To me it seems like a growing opportunity...

I'd like to give props to kybernetik for his wonderful comment ! i know people who touch a computer and the damned thing goes to hell, crashes all the time, nothing seems to work... then i work on the same PC and it runs smoothly... it maybe has something to do with your vibes? who the hell knows, this is a damn mystery to me !

supersayayin

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Synth72.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  11:25PM )

- Karplus, how is Norman? I'm looking at OU if I decide to pursue an MA in Anthropology or Geography.

Synth72

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php.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (19-Aug-02  11:46PM )

- Karplus,

I did the same thing you did and sold all my hardware and I've been using Reason 2.0 in OS X with absolutely no regrets. Reason's Malstrom synth, for example is a fantastic replacement for my Microwave XT. In fact, I prefer it over the XT for creating bizare types of sounds. No hardware sampler I've owned could do some of the things that the NN-XT sampler can do. This all in a portable,easy to use package.

You should try Ableton Live with Reason...a really inspiring combination, and I haven't had a crash yet with OS X.

php

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soulboy.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (20-Aug-02  12:59AM )

- why is doing something you enjoy (in this case making music) differently selling out?

soulboy

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silmu.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (20-Aug-02  06:57AM )

- Kybernetik and fac,

I've also found out that computers are very sensitive little buggers. Here´s three things I´ve found to make the computer malfunction or crash:

1. Multiple users. Computers seem to be a lot like people in this sense. Too many people demanding too much of you, and you just crash.

2. If you are in a hurry/under stress yourself, the damn thing somehow picks the vibes.

3. Trying to do too many things on your machine. Well, OF COURSE you can do pro 3D, world class video editing, 32-64-track recording running your soft synths and shit plus download all the files you wish off the net. But be prepared for surprises.

Karplus, I know from personal experience that turning from hardware to software is really quite an eye-opener in some aspects. I personally have been doing most of my tracks on a VERY "small" setup, jeskola buzz, for the last 1,5 years.

While I've done a record amount of tracks with the bugger, I've still made a lot of "live" recordings with my hardware setup. Just some doodling and bits'n'pieces straight to minidisc or tape. These sessions then end up being samples in the computer environment. Works very well.

Now that I checked your original hardware setup from the beginning of this thread, it seems that the liberating effect of getting rid of it all must have been great. Just be beware of pumping your computer too full with the virtual counterparts.

Link: http://www.mp3.com/silmu

silmu

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ivan.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (20-Aug-02  07:57AM )

- I've moved over to almost all software (but I've never had that much hardware to begin with), and it's a lot more powerful, cheaper, and more convenient.

But some drawbacks IME (in addition to what people have said above):

- Hardware guarantees a certain amount of voices/sounds. Stuff like Reaktor is incredibly powerful, but tends to eat a lot of CPU. I can run the equivalent of a Nord Modular or Wavestation, but not both at the same time. (I need to get a faster computer.. :)

- Some hardware has no equivalent in software. FM7 comes close to the TG/SY77/FS1r, but can't do all the things they can. Same with advanced romplers or high-end samplers (although that's beginning to change with the likes of Kontakt).

- Latency. Depends on what you're doing, but sometimes the latency (midi and audio) when doing CPU intensive stuff is really bad. Using an USB midi interface and internal Mac audio probably doesn't help though...

But all in all, I really like software. I think it's amazing that you can do things that required a $100.000 studio 10 years ago on a computer for $1000. (Plus software, of course. ;)

ivan

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FootFall.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (20-Aug-02  08:05AM )

- Changes in you writing environment can obviously change the creative process alltogether.

Sometimes adding a new (or old) piece of technology can help. Sometimes removing something can help.

Doing what you've done Karplus, should be nothing if not inspiring at the very least.

I don't think you're selling out at all. There will always be the Hardware vs Software debate (which I'll try not to spark up) as well Analog vs VA debate.

Honestly, eveything is really just a brush. It's how the painter uses it that matters.

How you liking philly? you're pretty local to me now.

John (FootFall)

Link: http://www.mp3.com/footfall

FootFall

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syd.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (20-Aug-02  12:48PM )

- I definitely see hardware as a way to offset the immense CPU load that multiple applications can have on your system. Reason is very efficient CPU wise. You can definitely run it in addition to a software audio tracking/ sequencing package. However, adding plug-ins, more soft synths, etc. adds latency in both the Midi and audio realm. I was initially blown away by reason; however, the more I used it, the less I liked the internal effects and softsynths. Maestrom is capable of some very subtle sounds. Dr. Rex is a huge amount of fun, especially when you begin modulating your Rex slices in various ways. I really dislike the sound of the subtractor synth. These days I use it primarily for percussion...it frees up my other hardware for other tasks. However, all of this is subjective. It sounds like you are enjoying a more streamlined work environment. When you find that software is lacking in a certain area, you can always shell out some bucks and compensate with some hardware. Reason sounds much better with higher quality convertors...although you hear the aliasing in the samples (when modulating them) a little more.

syd

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Karplus.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (20-Aug-02  01:03PM )

- I frequently changed equipment in the past. Selling an AX-60 to get a DW-8000, Selling a D4 to get a DM Pro, Selling a Wavestation and Mackie 24.4.2 mixer to get a Nord Modular.

I have commonly missed some gear after selling it as the voices were not the same, and some voices, and hence some songs, couldn't be replicated. My most missed voice ever was an SY77 RCM Vioce that went from a Light Rhodes to a Screeeming metalic synth lead with velocity alone. It is hard to replace.

But I feel that with this software on CD I can change computers, and even platforms and get the same sound.

I will go back to some hardware. I will get the Motif 8 again. I must do that because I have promised myself, after my last album, that I would really learn how to play complex contrapuntal rhythms on the piano, and therefore I need a nice 88 key wieghted controller to practice.

However, I will stick with adding software in the form of FM7, Model E, Pro 5, and PPG 2.X. I had feared getting these programs as switching from hardware to software while composing was a pain in the ass. But, if I am mainly at the computer what could it hurt.

Anyone know any problems with running 4 synths in Cubase SX as opposed to running Reason all out???

Karplus

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syd.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (20-Aug-02  01:19PM )

- Karplus...I understand why you sold the Mo-8 (that is one heavy piece of kit to have to move). However, I am really falling in love with the sounds on my Motif. It is used in almost every composition these days. Yes, it suffers from Yamaha menu-itis; however, you have to love those Rhodes sounds...

syd

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Karplus.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (21-Aug-02  01:06PM )

- Synth 72, Norman Ok is not all that great without a car. Most of the best things are in the city. 15 miles

However, Oklahoma has some pretty cool stuff for dates that you would not expect.

Shakespeare in the Park, Edmond

Some decent dance clubs in the city, OKC

Good restaurants everywhere

Karplus

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ivan.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (21-Aug-02  03:19PM )

- I haven't had any problems yet with running 4+ synths in Logic, and Cubase is better at VSTi:s, so I don't think that should be any problem.

The drawback might be that Reason is a more integrated system, and has less overhead than Cubase. Less opportunity for bugs and strange hardware conflicts too, since it's a smaller program.

OTOH, Cubase is a lot more open, and can run a bigger variety of synths. Added VST support to Reason might make a difference though... (don't know if Propellerheads are considering that though.)

Personally I wouldn't bother with Model E. I think it sounds bad and has a clunky interface. It might be the VST implementation in Logic though. I'm planning on getting FM7 myself - the demo was excellent, and from your gearlist it seems you have somewhat similar tastes in gear.

ivan

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Karplus.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (21-Aug-02  03:54PM )

- And I forgot who said it but someone said "computer musicians are boring live"

I think that you could have tons of gear and more often than not watching a keyboard player is boring.

Karplus

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David M.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (22-Aug-02  12:26AM )

- "May I go to the bathroom?.......................................

......................................

......................Thank you"

David M

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silverglitter.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (22-Aug-02  12:59AM )

- hey man, if it works for you... more power to ya... I just can't do it. I need the whole hardware bit... software just doesn't sit with me, but if it does for you.... great.

dan

silverglitter

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nubilee.... Re:Have I sold out??? I need to know!!! (23-Aug-02  03:10AM )

- Noo-buh-lee. It's my cat's name (she's a sweetie), also a letter to an unknown female by Shakespear..

Interesting, probably not :)

Also if you have to ask, most likely you have... (hehe) -- probably not though!

nubilee

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