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Music Theory:  metal/classical scales


14-Dec-05 (synth2themax)
20-Dec-05 (johnfingers)
20-Mar-06 (3DarkYears)
29-Mar-06 (Sadan)
29-Mar-06 (3DarkYears)
31-Mar-06 (synth2themax)
02-Apr-06 (MetalMuse)
02-Apr-06 (synth2themax)
05-Apr-06 (3DarkYears)
05-Apr-06 (3DarkYears)
05-Apr-06 (3DarkYears)
05-Apr-06 (3DarkYears)
09-Apr-06 (MetalMuse)
09-Apr-06 (MetalMuse)
09-Apr-06 (3DarkYears)
09-Apr-06 (3DarkYears)


Original Message
synth2themax.... metal/classical scales (14-Dec-05  06:56PM )

- hey guys...

what are some really sweet sounding scales should i use... either metal of classical. or if you know any off the wall scales you enjoy tell me about it.

thanks!

synth2themax

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johnfingers.... Re:metal/classical scales (20-Dec-05  10:40AM )

- I've had a lot of fun with the likes of:

C D#E GG# B

which is a simple pattern if you look at it.

It includes both the major and minor chords of C, E, and G# and can be entered and left via those keys.

Any sequence that has any kind of pattern to it can be recognised as having some degree of musical validity.

The conventional scales are the sweetest sounding as the frequencies of all their notes are simple ratios of each other, so they share overtones.

Sweet -and -sour is more interesting than sweet -and -sweet, so try going in and out of conventionality.

You don't even have to take a scale approach. For example, take a chord progression and use the "neighbours" scale of each chord rather than the same scale throughout the progression. The neighbours scale includes the actual notes of the chord plus a semitone below each plus a full tone above. So for a C major chord that is: (notes) C E G plus B Eb F# plus D F# A ( I actually prefer to use Bb rather than B, giving C D Eb E F# G A Bb) if most of the rhythmically stressed notes are actual chord notes it seems to work well. When the chord changes, you change scale.

You can also just take a melodic phrase and repeat it, transposing up a semitone ( or other interval ) each time. On a fretboard this is pretty easy; you just play the same thing a fret higher each time. On a keyboard using the pitch bend preset to an exact semitone each way can be wild; you play your riff with the lever in low mid and high positions. Likewise you can play simple chord appegios through the progression while doing some methodical flipping of the lever on each note.

On a fretboard you can play around with any geometric pattern. On a keyboard you can remap the notes and play something that would otherwise be standard stuff.

I'm sure some will criticize the way I have expressed these ideas, but they are just starting points, and if you get some fun out of them, who cares?

johnfingers

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3DarkYears.... Re:metal/classical scales (20-Mar-06  06:32AM )

- It's not all done with scales. Sometimes, for example, moving a riff chromatically after each cycle can be nicely weird, especially if the number of beats in the riff is not the time signature, so the "one" falls on different parts of the riff.

3DarkYears

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Sadan.... Re:metal/classical scales (29-Mar-06  04:35AM )

- Hello,dont mean to stray from the subject a little but,for myself playing drums for the most of my musical "career" haha,(electricity pays the bills)I picked up the bass a year ago mostly due to noise restrictions,blah IF ITS TOO LOUD YOUR TOO OLD!And sometimes its not at all about even truly knowing music theory at all(It definitely helps)I tend to play my bass with the mindset of a drummer.I play the scales but only when I think about it.When I let my natural talents flow through the bass what comes out is 100 times better than when I actually try.What I'm saying is Play through Yourself!If it sounds good to you it is! >HAIL THE HORDES<

Sadan

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3DarkYears.... Re:metal/classical scales (29-Mar-06  09:14AM )

- "If it sounds good to you it is!" yeah, I'll subscribe to that. Of course If you want more stuff that sounds good to you, some sort of method may help.

3DarkYears

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synth2themax.... Re:metal/classical scales (31-Mar-06  11:11PM )

- hahahahah yeah i tried "If it sounds good to you it is!" but am trying to get away from that hahaha.

synth2themax

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MetalMuse.... Re:metal/classical scales (02-Apr-06  07:33AM )

- you retard. the man is askin about scales.

first of all, you NEVER play scales. a scale is simply a chronological set of notes based on a specific intervallic pattern. so forget about playing scales. learn them and understand them, but don't play them.

so, what do you play then? well, you can learn diatonic lead patterns on guitar. FRETBOARD LOGIC SE is a very good book with some excellent lead patterns. once you learn the basic lead patterns and how to conveniently navigate the fingerboard on a guitar, then you can modify the patterns to suit your taste.

if you don't have a guitar, then you reall shouldn't worry about writing metal in the first place because metal music is based in guitar.

ok, here's some modes you should become familiar with if you are serious about writing metal:

aeolian, dorian, phrygian-dominant, locrian, lydian sharp 5, and mixolydian.

if u don't know what those words mean or what a mode is, then you aint ready to write metal.

MetalMuse

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synth2themax.... Re:metal/classical scales (02-Apr-06  07:40PM )

- good stuff... yeah i started playing guitar many years ago but none of my teachers taught theory, they just taught me how to play other peoples music. these modes where actually what i was looking for. thanks for your help.

synth2themax

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3DarkYears.... Re:metal/classical scales (05-Apr-06  01:19PM )

- Contrary to the wisdom of he who calls others retards and judges who is worthy, it is of course ridiculous to claim that you NEVER play scales.

In the strict meaning of a scale the notes are played consecutively (which is not the same as chronologically) from root note to root note. You can find quite a few examples of complete scales in metal, usually ripped out at lightning speed. In the more free interpretation of the scale concept, the notes of the scale are regarded as a pattern and can be played in various orders combinations. I believe this is the sense implied by the question.

3DarkYears

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3DarkYears.... Re:metal/classical scales (05-Apr-06  01:28PM )

- The standard modes are simply derived from the major scale ( or pattern if you will ) by centering on a note other than the original root note.
The Dorian mode for example centres on the second degree of the original major pattern. So examples of the Dorian mode are
D E F G A B C D ( derived from the C major scale ) and
A B C D E F# G A ( derived from the G major scale ) You don't really need to know the names of the modes to play them, you just need to get used to the sounds of the scales formed by choosing a new "home note".

3DarkYears

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3DarkYears.... Re:metal/classical scales (05-Apr-06  01:33PM )

- So listing the common modal scales derived from C major:

C D EF G A BC

D EF G A BC D

EF G A BC D E

F G A BC D EF

G A BC D EF G

A BC D EF G A

BC D EF G A B



If we didn't refer to these as SCALES, that is with a defined start and finish point, there would be no difference between them, as they all use the same pattern of notes

3DarkYears

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3DarkYears.... Re:metal/classical scales (05-Apr-06  01:42PM )

- It is not necessary to have a guitar to write metal, any more than it would be necessary for a classical composer to have a flute, trumpet, harp, cello, etc. In fact much of the material used by metal guitarists was originally written for other instruments. Metal is a very sophisticated genre of music, in spite of the fact that most of its fans know very little about it. The same could be said for classical music.
Every metal head should know the chant: "Satan oscillate my metallic sonatas" and be able to spell it backwards. ; )

3DarkYears

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MetalMuse.... Re:metal/classical scales (09-Apr-06  08:18AM )

- the exotic modes are not based on the major scale.

what you are calling the "standard modes" are correctly termed "the church modes".

as for chronological versus consecutive, I believe we are talking about the same thing.

MetalMuse

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MetalMuse.... Re:metal/classical scales (09-Apr-06  08:21AM )

- If we didn't refer to these as SCALES, that is with a defined start and finish point, there would be no difference between them, as they all use the same pattern of notes <--- written by 3darkyears

actually, if look at the intervallic steps between the notes, they are different for each scale you wrote out. therfore, your statement that the note patterns are the same is basically nonsense.

MetalMuse

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3DarkYears.... Re:metal/classical scales (09-Apr-06  08:58AM )

- Obviously they all use the same notes, that is CDEFGABC. It is only by defining starting points, that is by calling them SCALES, that your other statement re the intervals, makes sense.

3DarkYears

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3DarkYears.... Re:metal/classical scales (09-Apr-06  09:05AM )

- I think you meant to say consecutive. Chronological would mean listed in terms of which were played first, second etc in time, and could refer to any sequence of the notes if that's the order you played them in.

Look up any book of modes and the church modes are given as the standard modes. Obviously I was not refering to the exotic modes.

3DarkYears

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