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General:  From studio to live set... how do you do it?


28-Sep-06 (CKM000)
28-Sep-06 (Cerebral Infect)
28-Sep-06 (CKM000)
28-Sep-06 (Dr. Whammo)
28-Sep-06 (sauce)
28-Sep-06 (vokal)
29-Sep-06 (Rt.Hon.Beermaster)
29-Sep-06 (CKM000)
29-Sep-06 (Cerebral Infect)
29-Sep-06 (vokal)
30-Sep-06 (Rt.Hon.Beermaster)
04-Oct-06 (nick@sonic)
17-Jun-11 (Zombitron)
17-Jun-11 (Zombitron)


Original Message
CKM000.... From studio to live set... how do you do it? (28-Sep-06  09:10AM )

- Greetings all --

I've got a few tracks under me belt now and would like to take the plunge and do a live set. The problem is that all my tracks are in Logic Express for Mac, and by the looks of it, this isn't the best way to play 'live'. One of the big reasons is the 30 seconds+ load times for changing songs that have a lot of plug-in instances, but there's also some stability issues I've noticed. The last thing I need is "Core Audio Overload" in the middle of a song followed by dead silence.

One thought I had was to use Ableton Live for a live set. I've played with the demo a bit, and it seems really fun, but is there any easy way to transfer my Logic tracks into Live? Copying MIDI, instrument, and audio data one pattern at a time seems very tedious - almost to the point where it would seem easier to write everything all over again.

So I guess my question to you guys is, how do YOU do it?

Cheers

CKM000


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Cerebral Infect.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (28-Sep-06  09:38AM )

- "Copying MIDI, instrument, and audio data one pattern at a time seems very tedious - almost to the point where it would seem easier to write everything all over again."

It is a tedious task indeed to transfer from one software platform to an other.

You don't have to necesserily transfer track per track, midi to midi. Approach you track as if you were a remixer. how would you remix live ? Which part you want to be static ? which part you want to mangle in real time. Knowing that, you can create submix, You can go to say from a 16 track compositions in logic to a 4-6 track only in live. Finally when exporting, split your song in small loops in order to keep the file size as little as possible, it's good for the memory use.

Also in a live situation, never use the CPU to it's max. So in Logic, you might have a track that has a VST instruments with some insert effects. If in your live set this track and it's effect would be static, do a mixdown of this track. An audio only track is really less processor intensive than a software track + effects.

When I have time to kill, I have friend thats does music totally opposed to mine. sometimes they lend me the CD of their jam session and the timing is loose. I load the session in Wavelab, chops the interesting part, loop time in live and correct the timing, and I am having fun just to add stuff over it to give the track a new dimension. of course, they never like my ideas :)

Hope that helps.

Cerebral Infect

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CKM000.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (28-Sep-06  10:23AM )

- Man those are some fantastic suggestions - thanks! I never really looked at it like that, but it definitely sounds like the way to go. That route also has the benefit of having a live set that differs from the 'studio' recordings. Thanks dude! :)

CKM000


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Dr. Whammo.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (28-Sep-06  12:01PM )

- Live also lets you "freeze" VSTis once you get them tweaked just right - so they take less CPU juice..

also, you could export your Logic song as a MIDI file, and then import that into Live... and with Logic you could make a macro for bouncing out each audio track seperately (if it doesnt already have that function)

Dr. Whammo


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sauce.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (28-Sep-06  09:10PM )

- All of these are great suggestions! Or.....

..you could use some hardware like your grandfather!

sauce


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vokal.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (28-Sep-06  10:32PM )

- Great analogueOGY by Cerebral. Viewing a show as how you would put your set together in a remix is a great way to look at it.

If it's just you, or maybe you and a couple people, don't be shy about playback. Most bands what you to believe they are doing it live, but electronic bands are so full of shit when they try to make it seem like that.

I recently saw a band live that had a drummer banging on a drum pad the entire show. However he was mainly just adding a snare and a hi-hat. So a huge amount of the percussion was playback, and my thoughts are "why bother have the token standup drum pad guy?" yawn.

If you like to rock the keyboards or any instrument, just playback all the parts except the ones you want to do live.

I don't know how complex your studio sets are on your DAW. But it shouldn't be to difficult to disect what you need.

Robert Rich is a great example of a great electronic solo live performance. Some of the show he was sitting down playing a slide guitar, then he would get up for some songs and play his flutes, his MOTM modular and his other synths. He had 2 Laptops playing back Live clips in Ableton live (he using Logic in studio).

vokal

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Rt.Hon.Beermaster.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (29-Sep-06  05:11AM )

- I got to say it and Sauce said it too:

Try and PLAY it live or as much as you can. Nobody has much respect for a guy 'performing' on his lap top. You might just as well burn the song onto your iPod and have done with the hassles.

Get yourself a keyboard controller or several and show people you can play. Keep it real ! ( even if you are only playing one out of 15 layers in a song )

Respect will follow - Go for it !

Rt.Hon.Beermaster

“Well, if I could play like Wynton (Marsalis), I wouldn’t play like Wynton.� - Chet Baker

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CKM000.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (29-Sep-06  06:37AM )

- Actually, the laptop will be used primarily as sequencer and for drum kits. Most of the set will be played with a Bass Station keyboard as controller, MS2000, and various other MIDI toys. I use one plug-in synth, but other than that I tend to avoid them because most end up sounding too polished or over produced to me. People probably think I'm nuts but I prefer the raw sound of my mixing inadequacies that really shine through with hardware! :P

Many great suggestions guys, thanks again!

CKM000


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Cerebral Infect.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (29-Sep-06  10:15AM )

- "Get yourself a keyboard controller or several and show people you can play. Keep it real ! ( even if you are only playing one out of 15 layers in a song )

Respect will follow - Go for it !"

I am sucking a playing keys, guitar, bass, but I can almost play all of these.

In the future I want to try something challenging. Usually, electric music band that has a drummer has the drummer with hearphone with a monotonic click track.

But, with live band, what is cool is the tempo shift. In chorus part a good drummer will accelerate the pace a little bit to get this small urge sensation.

So I was thinking of using a 34one pedal that acts as a master sync to my laptop/synths and tap tempo it from time to time to keep timed with the rest of the band. Yahoo, want to play the song faster ? No problem ! Tap tap tap

The problem is... I don't have a band. :(

Cerebral Infect

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vokal.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (29-Sep-06  10:45PM )

- Beermaster is right, and like I said, playback what you need to , don't be shy about it and perform what you can.

But most of all, don't be afraid to be yourself. And the music really does make the show, over the performance. Especially in electronic music.

Don't be cheesy, fake, and redundant unless that is you being yourself ;)

When I go to see a solo artist, a duo a trio or a band, I go for the music, I go for the atmosphere. A great performance doesn't hurt, but music and atmosphere is far more important.

I know when I adapt my current projects for live performance, their will not be a lot I can actually perform music wise. So I am learning a lot about video, VJing if you will, and I will control the video that goes with my music show.

vokal

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Rt.Hon.Beermaster.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (30-Sep-06  02:51AM )

- The other major thing to remember is that the song doesn't have to be exactly the same as the studio version. Keeping it live will give you variations on the sound each time- like any live band of repute - each gig is a different performance and the 'improvised' or different interpretations of your performance keep it alive and fresh - especialy to fans of your material.

Rt.Hon.Beermaster

“Well, if I could play like Wynton (Marsalis), I wouldn’t play like Wynton.� - Chet Baker

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nick@sonic.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (04-Oct-06  03:04PM )

- bounce your logic tracks or submix to bar 1 stems - that way they all start at the same time, then slice up in Live and sequence to taste , you can play with the arrangment and triigger stuff from various instruments etc etc

nick@sonic


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Zombitron.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (17-Jun-11  07:37AM )

- I use Logic live myself...I hate to give things away but these times need more electronic music live!

I use Recycle/Reason for all my drums. I make things in Logic and Cubase and chop them up in Recycle for the Rex machine. I use it for synths as well.

I use Rewire to connect to Logic then use a template I created to have my mixer tracks from Reason piped into Logic so I have an effect rack for each mixer track. I have two MIDI controllers set up, one to control the "effect rack" and the other to control my Rex instances ie... kit switching, pitch, filter and filter type, filter and amp decay, and volume.

On the Logic side I have the controller set for tempo on one knob, then everything else is effects. In my "effect racks" I have EQ, Compression, Artillery2, Replicant, Automaton, a homebrew flange, delay, and reverb on all 16 tracks. A few are CC's for certain parameters, the rest is bypass. I also have sequences running my hardware synths. Its a lot of control and it all fits into a suitcase. Live I use a 2.2ghz MacBook with 2gigs or Ram. I have not had ANY problems EVER.

I am currently changing it up though...MPC (or SP808, havent decided), a Waldorf Micro Q, Novation Bass Station KB all going into my Logic "racks" with Rewire running so I can keep my beloved Octorex's.

One suggestion I can give you, since many dont complicate matters like I do...

Get M Audio Torq or Deckadance the bounce everything you dont play physically dont to an AIFF the Rewire Logic to say Deckadance...You could use effects and such DJ style on the bounced tracks while still retaining the AU's on Logic that you want to play or control! I dont remember if both Deckadance and Torq support Rewire off hand but I know one of them does.

Zombitron

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Zombitron.... Re:From studio to live set... how do you do it? (17-Jun-11  07:47AM )

- The edit message wasnt working.... I also wanted to add I rarely use Reason synths, mostly just the samplers...Its a very powerful sampler. I personally dont care for Live, I rather dislike it.

I will admit that prepping my tracks for the live setting does take a LONG time, but my setup is very efficient and uses a lot less CPU than you'd think for how much I have running. Sometimes rewriting the track would be faster, lol...but I do admit, it takes hours for each track to be prepped but once its done, its done.

It may be different for you, but my tracks cant be physically played for the most part and I dont loop anything, all my tracks from start to finish are laid out note by note so every single bar is different or varied...I suppose I do "idm" and have been called breakcore, though I dont do anything like that stuff.

Zombitron

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